Which is better placement?

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KPSK

New Member
I have 2 Mackie SRM450v2's and 2 Yorkville LS720P's. Does putting the subs side by side and in front of me with the Mackies on each side of me, but about 10 feet away produce a better sound or would having the subs apart from each other and on the side of me, but 10 feet apart with the Mackies on top of them be better?
 

NickyB

Gear and Equipment Moderator
That setup provides an additional +3db of bass through acoustic coupling and is most likely the most efficient way to run your system. +3db is the equivalent of doubling your power (i.e. its like replacing a 300w amp with a 600w amp).

NickyB
 

classactparty

New Member
You may be asking yourself if you get mush that way. The best way to avoid mush is to keep your high end speakers separate d from each other and the lower bottom end. There is virtually no stereo separation below 120 hz; or at least not discernable stereo separation.

Coupling is efficient, and if you keep your sub levels reasonable, cleaner sounding.
 

Ken Heath

Super Moderator...da-ta-daaa!!!
Staff member
The first one you said!

;)

Oh, and make sure the subs are in phase with eachother, or else you're cancelling the bass altogether, wherever you put them
 

KPSK

New Member
So the first option by putting the subs side by side and in front of me while my highs are on the side. Thanks all for replying and will have to try it out. Probably a dumb question but i am trying to learn.
 

MIXSIRS

New Member
Another yes for choice # 1.

Keep your woofers together so you have bass coming from one point source. This way you will not get bass cancellation at different frequencies at various locations on the dance floor.
 

Maui Mobile Music Chuck

Life On A Rock :)
I'm going to be a stick in the mud here, while what they are say is the "best" way to do it, no argument there, it might also come down to,,, and I'll get ready to duck here, personal preference of the look.

I don't like having the subs out front, I don't think it looks good...

so I keep them off to the side. The events that I am doing, mostly 50 - 200 people, I have more than enough bass.

If you have a good system having the subs on the sides is okay. I see pleanty of big shows with real sound companies that have the subs on the side.

Why don't they "couple" them? They don't have to. They have subs that rock enough.

If your system is lacking bass and you want a way to "pump it up" without buying better gear, then coupling is a way to do it.

But if you buy the right gear, no need....

Okay, I'll run and hide now.
 

djrox

Account Closed
I see pleanty of big shows with real sound companies that have the subs on the side.

Why don't they "couple" them? They don't have to. They have subs that rock enough.
They likely are coupling several mulitple driver cabinets on each side and the system is in full mono.

Coupling does has serious advantages but I do not always need those benefits so I don't always couple either. Typically two 18's need little added benefit in a closed environment.
 

Ken Heath

Super Moderator...da-ta-daaa!!!
Staff member
Chuck,

He asked which would produce better sound, and normally, one would equate more efficiency and useable output as "better"...so coupling for the 3db boost is, in fact, better. It also might allow his amp to work less hard and therefore not slip into clipping so readilly when he's trying to pump it up to "11"...which will, in turn, keep everything sounding cleaner and "better".

I agree that aesthetically, one on each side looks better and more balanced...but the question was not about better looks, it was about better sound.

Mahalo, Bruddah!
 

Bob Dietrich

Active Member
Another yes for choice # 1.

Keep your woofers together so you have bass coming from one point source. This way you will not get bass cancellation at different frequencies at various locations on the dance floor
.

Might I add, just not on the dance floor. More importantly, throughout the venue. As you get further away from the source, the peaks and dips become much more pronounced in that some will be getting pouinded with bass, others will have virtually none leading to a sound that is uneven at best, and extremely irritating to guests in these areas at worst. While it might have plenty of bass on the dance floor and even sound even on the floor, the problem as noted is what the guests around the venue is hearing.

As for larger sound reinforcement. Most that I see these days are still coupled and acting as a single point source, even if seperated somewhat. Subs need not be touching or be right next to one another to acoustically couple, just close enough to be within the wavelengths to acoustically couple. In larger concerts, many times today you'll see subwoofers that are on both sides and nearly all across the front...but if they're apart 20' or so in the front, yet have a wall of them on each side, it's still coupled acoustically.

Placement in the room is extremely important when using only a single sub or two as most DJ's use. Depending on the dimensions of the room, your placement from the rear wall can make or break your bass response regardless of coupling or not. Have you ever noticed in some rooms where you setup the bass just seems very weak? Or very loud? A change of as little as a foot from the rear wall can make a huge difference.

If the bass is very weak, one usually compensates by adding more output from the subs to try and overcome pyhsics...the resulting sound seemingly getting louder on the dance floor, but now over on the sides halfway back 2 tables are being absolutely pounded by bass while a table over from them...nothing...all mids & highs. Proper placement in the room is imperative.

What I just described can happen and does frequently as well when not using a single point source...in other words, not coupling the subs together. The same is true on large PA systems as well...as noted above, even though it appears they might not be touching and there's still some distance between the subs, they're still acting as a single point source...not all mind you, but the better designed systems.

Further, there's other large PA systems where the subs are truly quite a distance apart...and you might do an experiment to verify that in systems like this, the bass is usually less even throughout the venue/arena/stadium. Luckily, it's far easier to get pretty good sound from our little systems then a full blown concert rig...you can't believe the logistical and acoustic nightmares they have to overcome! To clear up something written by another poster, it simply doesn't matter how good of subs or how big or bad they are...physics applies to all of them as well. Don't confuse size as some seemingly do with the problem...it actually gets worse with bigger badder systems!!

As for aesthetics, I've always thought the more traditional speakers on each side "looks" better...or perhaps it's what we've become accustomed to seeing growing up...it's normal. I much prefer the better more even sound I get when acoustically coupled though as the equipment is working easier (more output as noted by NickyB) and it simply sounds better all around the room. As for how many people are there...another myth...sound is sound...it depends on the room and placement, not how many people are there...pesky physics again that simply doesn't care how many people are there...sound is sound...period. It doesn't matter if one has enough bass, only how even the bass is around the room.

One final thought...next time you see a large concert rig, take note of where ALL the subs are located...not just the ones you can plainly see. Many times you'll find them under the stage across the front as well.

Ok, one final, final thought...LOL! Arrive early enough to try the different methods yourself...and don't just worry about the sound on the dance floor, make sure you check the sound all around the room...you'll easily find which way offers the best sound overall.
 
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rfielder

New Member
+1 for coupling. I own one LS720P, and rent a second one as needed. Two of those together kick real nice! They are matched to two Yorkville NX55P, which in my experience have a bit more power than the Mackies.

+1 for not liking them front and centre in front of the DJ area or stage. That is OK for some setups, but not for the way some of us work.

The hall I used for many years was on the second floor of an older building, with a wood dance floor. One LS720P was enough, and I put it to one side, got a very small amount of boost from the side wall. That was sufficient for that hall, for the music I was playing - filled the lower frequencies very nicely, and could kick a bit if needed.

This past weekend, I has a second one for a larger hall (48' x 80', with a 10' x 15' stage at a narrow end). The stage was about 22" high. It was an all day event - we started setup at 0700hrs, first lesson was 0900hrs, break for dinner at 1700hrs, dance from 8PM to midnight.

I put the two subs side by each on the floor in front of the stage. That worked very well! Plus, they were low enough that they didn't blow the view of the instructors on stage.

During the dinner break, I moved the two subs up to the back of the stage. I wanted to clear the dance floor for the evening, plus I wanted to get the boost from the back wall of the stage, and maybe a bit of a boost from using the wood stage as a sounding board. Big mistake!

There was almost no bass on the dance floor during the evening! On stage it was good, but the subs might as well have been turned off for all the good they did on the dance floor.

Why? Far as I can figure, based on the advice of others, is that the positioning of the sub above the floor and below the ceiling of the stage was just right to cancel out the sound.

Next year, I may try both subs off to one side, with a pole for one top. Low frequencies are supposed to be unidirectional, but I know that you can often tell where the bass is coming from.

Morals of the story:
1> if it works, don't fix it!
2> coupling is good, even for speakers
3> make notes and learn from you past attempts
4> if you must make a change, TEST IT before the hall fills up
 

djtunes

Checking Reality
I read somewhere that there is a rule of thumb kind of measurement for how far away from, or how close to the wall behind you the subs should be located. something like more than 1 foot away from the wall, and you may lose some bass until you get more like 7 or 8 feet away to be out of trouble again. Does anyone know what that was?
 

KPSK

New Member
So when connecting 2 together should you use 1 cable to each or run 1 cable to the input of one and then out from that one to the other. Or does it matter at all?
 

rfielder

New Member
So when connecting 2 together should you use 1 cable to each or run 1 cable to the input of one and then out from that one to the other. Or does it matter at all?
Please define - "use 1 cable to each". Where are these cables coming from?

My setup has a DCX2496. One of the ports is set as a sum A+B, so it outputs a mono signal. That runs to the sub. When I use two subs, I run very short cable from the Out of the first sub to the In of the second sub.

This means using one cable about 3' long, rather than another 25' or 50' cable. Plus, unless you short cable is screwed up, it guarantees that the subs will be in phase.

If I were running both L and R to the sub, I would run both to the first sub, and then two short cables to the second sub.

That is all IMHO, of course. There are lots of people in this discussion with far more knowedge and experience than I have, so I am hoping they will all offer advice.
 
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