New report about pricing........

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ThunderstruckDJs

Active Member
Did anyone see that documentary about WalMart where it followed certain small businesses trying to get their wares on WalMart shelves? It was HAWKISH how demanding is on their suppliers....the ONLY way the suppliers make any money is to kick out HUGE volume (which is why much of the product on WalMart shelves is made in 3rd world country sweatshops!)

I only have 52 dates to sell.
 

DJ Dr. Drax

Active Member
Mark Beecher said:
Don't discount more than you can afford to lose. Pretty simple.
If someone doesn't have a business plan with metrics involved to measure results & progress, how can they even begin to know how much they can afford to lose?

Since it is very safe to say that the majority don't have a plan with any metrics involved at all, it is safe to say that they have no idea if they are profitable or not, if they are losing money or not.
 
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Mark Beecher

Guest
Lumpy mattress, I'm doing good.
Saggy mattress - not good

It's almost that basic.

Quicken is my mattress.
Bank statements are my mattress. Tax returns are my mattress.
23 years never had a plan of the type you are talking about.
 
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Mark Beecher

Guest
btw, if anyone is wondering how Drax is able to pull a quote from a post I made that has not yet posted - it's because Bill Smith is moderating me.
If you would like to see why I'm being moderated, well ya can't because Bill removed the entire thread to conceal the non reason.
It's personal folks.
 
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Mark Beecher

Guest
Drax's beard is very attractive on him.

Just seeing if Drax will disagree
 

DJ Ducky

New Member
DJ Dr. Drax said:
Mark Beecher said:
Don't discount more than you can afford to lose. Pretty simple.
If someone doesn't have a business plan with metrics involved to measure results & progress, how can they even begin to know how much they can afford to lose?

Since it is very safe to say that the majority don't have a plan with any metrics involved at all, it is safe to say that they have no idea if they are profitable or not, if they are losing money or not.
Ah...you said the 'M' word (metrics). You wouldn't happen to be the pointy-haired boss of your company, would you? :p Sorry, I've been reading a lot of Dilbert.

As far as profitability, a lot of that gets figured out when the accounting books get done. It also gets figured into taxes, so I do not totally understand why anybody would have much trouble figuring out how much they are profiting or losing.
 

Goodknightdj

Word of Web (WOW) DJ
Goodknightdj said:
DJ Dr. Drax said:
I will suggest options to clients on how they can afford me.
And what might these be?
So, you're afraid of that question, are you.

I guess I can attribute a downturn in 2006 as a result of standing my ground. There were several weekends in September through December that were not booked at all because I was standing my ground.

Then, too late to salvage the rest of 2006, I did lower prices and readopt a negotiation policy.

In 2007 I raised prices again and continued the negotiation policy. Yes, there were open dates but nobody gets them all.

So, are you going to answer my question?
 

DJ Dr. Drax

Active Member
DJ Ducky said:
Ah...you said the 'M' word (metrics). You wouldn't happen to be the pointy-haired boss of your company, would you? :p Sorry, I've been reading a lot of Dilbert.
Well I am the CEO of my company, I should know where it stands. The problem with what you say.........
DJ Ducky said:
As far as profitability, a lot of that gets figured out when the accounting books get done. It also gets figured into taxes, so I do not totally understand why anybody would have much trouble figuring out how much they are profiting or losing.
The problem is lack of real time knowledge. By Tax time it is really too late to be finding out your losing money IMO. When the accounting books get done, how often it that? quarterly? semi annually? yearly? IMO those too are too little too late. There is a reason that companies track & produce quarterly reports. Are we to assume that they magically appear at the end of quarter? Or are they made up of Monthly reports? Which get made up of weekly reports?

A goal not written is only a wish. performance exists, but when it is measured & studied, it increases.

Mark, what is with you and mattresses? ;) LOL Are you bed obsessed?
What I am proposing is a plan, not merely going with the flow.

Do you set goals for business growth? If so Do you track that? If so how? Mattress lumps? Do you evaluate results to see if you could improve the growth rate?
 

DJ Dr. Drax

Active Member
Tom,

Not afraid of any question you could pose, but I am also not sport posting,
you want your question answered, you go first, Afterall, I asked first ... ;)
 

DJ Ducky

New Member
DJ Dr. Drax said:
DJ Ducky said:
Ah...you said the 'M' word (metrics). You wouldn't happen to be the pointy-haired boss of your company, would you? :p Sorry, I've been reading a lot of Dilbert.
Well I am the CEO of my company, I should know where it stands. The problem with what you say.........
DJ Ducky said:
As far as profitability, a lot of that gets figured out when the accounting books get done. It also gets figured into taxes, so I do not totally understand why anybody would have much trouble figuring out how much they are profiting or losing.
The problem is lack of real time knowledge. By Tax time it is really too late to be finding out your losing money IMO. When the accounting books get done, how often it that? quarterly? semi annually? yearly? IMO those too are too little too late. There is a reason that companies track & produce quarterly reports. Are we to assume that they magically appear at the end of quarter? Or are they made up of Monthly reports? Which get made up of weekly reports?

A goal not written is only a wish. performance exists, but when it is measured & studied, it increases.
So...do you run a corporation or a mobile DJ service? Mine is a small company, a growing single-op. I check and update my books often enough to know in which direction I am headed. I believe that if you keep your books updated daily/weekly, you should be able to look at them and know where your company stands; otherwise, you've got problems. I do set goals, both long-term and short-term, as well as make plans and backup plans. These goals are business-oriented in various aspects, not just the business & money side (of which you only seem to be concerned, Drax), but in the areas of customer service, purchasing, and emerging technologies. :)

By the way, Drax, are you going to answer Goodnight DJ's question? He's calling you out...may as well save face. :twisted:
 

Goodknightdj

Word of Web (WOW) DJ
DJ Dr. Drax said:
Tom,

Not afraid of any question you could pose, but I am also not sport posting,
you want your question answered, you go first, Afterall, I asked first ... ;)
And I did answer your question. I lost some business in 2006 by standing my ground. There were dates that were not filled.

I am not sport posting here, whatever that is. You said that you offer your prospective clients advice on how they can afford your service. I am simply asking what that advice might be.
 

DJ Dr. Drax

Active Member
Ducky,

I run a corporation, my DJ company is an LLC. Does that make a difference?

I am concerned with all aspects of business planning, that is why you hear me always talking about a written business plan. That plan if correctly built covers ALL aspects of what you do. So I really do cover & plan for all the other aspects that you mentioned. This thread is about price & recessions.

Recession proofing your business has to come at all angles.

Tom calling me out? who cares? I think I called him out first for his outlandish statements.

Saving face on chatboard? Your kidding right? I have already answered that question a number of times for a number of people over the years. Tom however has made a statement that if you hold your ground your work little or not at all. I want him to back up that statement empirically.
 

DJ Ducky

New Member
DJ Dr. Drax said:
Ducky,

I run a corporation, my DJ company is an LLC. Does that make a difference?

I am concerned with all aspects of business planning, that is why you hear me always talking about a written business plan. That plan if correctly built covers ALL aspects of what you do. So I really do cover & plan for all the other aspects that you mentioned. This thread is about price & recessions.
So...you're a businessman and not a DJ? I'm just asking because I never notice posts from you about anything other than running a business. And as far as saving face, well, you're openly sharing information on your company in this public forum...the least you could do is answer Goodnight's question and not look like you blow people off. Besides, as a humbled small business owner, I would really like to know what options you, the CEO of an LLC recommend to clients so that they can afford your services.
 

DJ Dr. Drax

Active Member
Tom,

Your broad sweeping statement that if you hold your ground you don't work wasn't made from here is what happened to me. You made the unqualified statement that if you hold your ground you don't work. Now we have qualified that statement as your personal experience only & not indicative of market conditions generally we can move forward.

I discuss with them as I stated above already, the varied items on their budget, the importance of them & together I help them to align their budget with the things that they are placing the most importance on.

When they tell me entertainment is so important to them, that they feel 75% of the event success rides on it, I have very little trouble getting them to see that my asking for my fee represents a very small portion of their overall budget given how much emphasis they are placing on it. I let them have the epiphany that they should spend more for entertainment. IF Entertainment is not a priority for them, & they just want music, I am not their guy. I will gladly refer them to others in my network that I feel would be a better match for them. Abundance, there is plenty to go around. I don't have to have every job.

If entertainment is as important as they say it is, they can & will find the way to afford my services. Even if that means chicken over beef, no open bar, or passing on printed chocolates or ice molds. If they really want your services there is a way for them to afford it. If they are not willing to make any adjustments, why should I alter my price for them?

A friend remodeled his home. The contractor didn't alter his fees, he worked with my friend to prioritize what was important to him in the project to see that he spent the money on what he valued most & this allowed him to afford hiring a top quality contractor vs a mid tier one.

DJs are IMO too quick to drop their shorts just to work. In the absence of a business plan, I can see why, they are fearful about what tomorrow might hold. Most I talk to have no records or income tracking or expense tracking. When you have a plan then you can use flexibility to respond to market dynamics. You have more tools from which to work from than simply dropping your rates. That is the value of a plan, it brings clarity to the situation.

Without it your just leaving money on the table that you didn't need to IMO.
 

DJ Dr. Drax

Active Member
DJ Ducky said:
So...you're a businessman and not a DJ? I'm just asking because I never notice posts from you about anything other than running a business. And as far as saving face, well, you're openly sharing information on your company in this public forum...the least you could do is answer Goodnight's question and not look like you blow people off. Besides, as a humbled small business owner, I would really like to know what options you, the CEO of an LLC recommend to clients so that they can afford your services.

So you have to be either businessman or DJ? You can't be both? Interesting, I didn't know I had to make a choice. I guess if I have to, then I am a business man that runs an entertainment company.

Don't over estimate the position of owning an LLC. It's not that big a deal, it just gives you some tax & business options that a sole prop doesn't get.
I am still a single system operator.

I didn't blow him off, I simply expected him to answer the question I posed. He did, I answered his. As for only discussing business, well that's not exactly so I have an entire forum that I launched here to discuss technology. It now runs well on it's own with little intervention. I speak regularly at conventions & chapter meetings on varied topics. I am a recurrent speaker at the Computer DJ summit, Mobile Beat ( although it has been a couple years) & other events.

Entertainment Business is my passion. I have worked in several different industries in my life & the place where I see DJs need the most help is not in mixing, or song selection, but in marketing, sales, business planning & strategy. I come from a modestly analytical background so I tend to view most things by the numbers & using tools to evaluate the results. That helps emotionalism from creeping in causing you to make poor choices because your more emotionally attached to it than logically or rationally.
 

DJ Ducky

New Member
DJ Dr. Drax said:
DJ Ducky said:
So...you're a businessman and not a DJ? I'm just asking because I never notice posts from you about anything other than running a business. And as far as saving face, well, you're openly sharing information on your company in this public forum...the least you could do is answer Goodnight's question and not look like you blow people off. Besides, as a humbled small business owner, I would really like to know what options you, the CEO of an LLC recommend to clients so that they can afford your services.

So you have to be either businessman or DJ? You can't be both? Interesting, I didn't know I had to make a choice. I guess if I have to, then I am a business man that runs an entertainment company.

Don't over estimate the position of owning an LLC. It's not that big a deal, it just gives you some tax & business options that a sole prop doesn't get.
I am still a single system operator.

I didn't blow him off, I simply expected him to answer the question I posed. He did, I answered his. As for only discussing business, well that's not exactly so I have an entire forum that I launched here to discuss technology. It now runs well on it's own with little intervention. I speak regularly at conventions & chapter meetings on varied topics. I am a recurrent speaker at the Computer DJ summit, Mobile Beat ( although it has been a couple years) & other events.

Entertainment Business is my passion. I have worked in several different industries in my life & the place where I see DJs need the most help is not in mixing, or song selection, but in marketing, sales, business planning & strategy. I come from a modestly analytical background so I tend to view most things by the numbers & using tools to evaluate the results. That helps emotionalism from creeping in causing you to make poor choices because your more emotionally attached to it than logically or rationally.
Okay, we're just on two opposite ends of the spectrum here. It's pretty clear that we come from two very different backgrounds and have very differing viewpoints on what I call the DJ industry, rather than the Entertainment Business (too broad for me). We'll just leave it at that. You can have your analysis & metrics and I can enjoy the music. 8)
 

Goodknightdj

Word of Web (WOW) DJ
Man, you up and changed tactics on me. Here I was ready to come in with fire and brimstone.

Drax, this is where you and I differ.

I honestly believe that telling a prospective client to cut items top afford their entertainment is overly presumptive for an entertainment service. I just can't see me doing that.

Now, the ones that pay full price do not get hosed. They are just paying full price because they saw the value and could afford it.

DJ Dr. Drax said:
I am looking for the client that places an appropriate value upon entertainment.
And I as well but sometimes they might have the right value but the wrong funding. If the funding they have is above my cost of production, then I am willing to work with them and not cut the basic service offered. If they can’t get above the cost of production, then I simply don’t have the ability to work with them; I am not going to loose money.

You see it as leaving money on the table and I see it as working with the client to make their dream happen.

I guess the other difference between us is that you look at it with only the eyes of a business person. To me it is much more than a business.

Yes, I am going to do the things to make it sustainable; that is, expenses met. Yes, I am going to make sure that each event meets the profit margin I have defined. And, yes, I am even going to add in fluff on top of that so that I can actually be among the higher priced DJs in the area. But, this is also a thing I do for enjoyment, not a hobby, enjoyment. I enjoy DJing. I enjoy helping folks begin a new life together with a, well, bang is the only word I can think of. With that in mind, if they can't afford the price but can afford something over the cost of production, I'll work with them.

DJ Dr. Drax said:
Rather I take issue with wholesale discounting because it seems you believe it to be the only way to survive a recession.
And where did I say that?
 

hippydog

wuz here when it was Red.
len said:
I think a question you should ask yourself when asked for a discount is:

Would I rather work for a little less, or not get the job and stay home for nothing? Obviously, everyone's situation is different. Every date is different. There's no "right" answer.
Ditto that... :)

Myself, I'm not interested in working every bloody weekend, so discounting 'to get the job' has little interest for me..
but their are always exceptions: IE a show in the same place for two weeks and I only have to set up once... Of course I will give a discount..
A dance/performance for a vendor that sends me tons of customers.. damn right they get a discount!

On the other hand..
I have no problem with bartering.. If I can get something I want for what I consider equal value for my services, I don't see ANYTHING wrong with that!
:)
 

BBBuffalo

Active Member
Goodknightdj said:
But, this is also a thing I do for enjoyment, not a hobby, enjoyment.
Nothing wrong with that. In fact that gives you an opportunity to lead the industry in pricing in your area. You can single handedly bring up the perceived value of a DJ in your area.

Goodknightdj said:
if they can't afford the price but can afford something over the cost of production, I'll work with them.
Unless you do this.

By choosing to sometimes offer lower prices for the same services you then keep the value artificially low.

Go for the gusto. Lead your area. It will make it easier for you to make more as you go.
 
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