New report about pricing........

Status
Not open for further replies.

DJ Ron Auger

Account Closed
If you have value, service and skills above the averge DJ
I hear this quite a bit that justifies why you are better then the next. Can you define what they are? You are talking to a bride, what is your value, your service, and skill?

Those three works are used frequently but I don't hear and thing to back them up. Maybe then we can begin to understand.
 

FlyingDJDan

Don't Care About Titles
I get it!!!

Dj's have self confidence issues big time!!!

Again, if you have no respect for who you are, and what you do, why the hell should anyones else!

Why do sports figures make so much money??? Hell they are just playing a game! They should be doing it for free!!!

BULL!

They recognize all the hard work they did to get where they are. They recognize the entertainment value they give. They respect (overall) what they are and the talents they were blessed with.

Just a dj??? Is that really how you feel???

(Based on that comment...)


Talk about no respect for who you are and what you do!!! That statement is pathetic.

After hearing that, I wouldn't recommend you for a sound reinforcement job!!!

Pride??? Integrity??? Self Respect??? Passion???

Ah hell. It's just a dj playing music at another wedding for some b/g. :roll:

No drive, passion or ambition to be better and excel will only deliver bs results and deserve a BS paycheck if one thinks like that.

Even IF you do attend meetings and network as you say you do, you won't go far. Your just another dj in the field of many with that attitude.

Say what you want, with the attitude of "just a dj", you don't care. You can't. Pride in doing the job well would not allow you to have those words associated to you.

With that attitude, there is no way in heck you could get more.

Please, take that back.

What the hell happened to drive and ambition in this country to be the best. If someone "around the corner is better" finding out how they did it, learn, challenge yourself, and get back to the top???

Status quo. Accept. Everybody gets a ribbon. Feel good.

Pathetic.
 

FlyingDJDan

Don't Care About Titles
DJ Ron Auger said:
If you have value, service and skills above the averge DJ
I hear this quite a bit that justifies why you are better then the next. Can you define what they are? You are talking to a bride, what is your value, your service, and skill?

Those three works are used frequently but I don't hear and thing to back them up. Maybe then we can begin to understand.
See above post.

If you don't have it, you will never understand.

To get it you have to want it.
 

bb

Well-Known Member
Here's a few, others are welcome to add to this incomplete list.

Value... they get more than a DJ (button pusher), client feels overly sastified when the event is finished

Service... personalization, meet with the client, have all the songs they asked for at the event

Skills... can read a crowd, knows how to communicate with meaning when making announcements

My buddy Fatman Tom might be able to add to this he is very good with marketing with meaning. I would love to have Mark F. add to this its right up his alley in regards to showing the value behind the services a really good DJ can provide. I say this with respect.
 

Goodknightdj

Word of Web (WOW) DJ
FlyingDJDan said:
Why do sports figures make so much money??? Hell they are just playing a game! They should be doing it for free!!!

BULL!

They recognize all the hard work they did to get where they are. They recognize the entertainment value they give. They respect (overall) what they are and the talents they were blessed with.
And when it is time, they negotiate a new contract.
 

Ken Petersen

Account Closed
Goodknightdj said:
Ken Petersen said:
One of the FIRST steps in an economic downturn is to increase or, at the bare minimum, maintain current promotional endeavors
And yes, Ken just said it for all that have ears to hear.

He doesn't really know what he said but I'll explain it.

Discounts and negotiation are promotional endeavors!
Tom's response is a result of flawed awareness of the tools of marketing. Yes a discount is a tool of promotions - one of many and most often misused.

Sales discounts and coupons are a tool to drive sales for the short term. Discounting, coupons and negotiation are employed correctly to move quantities of stock in a short run, in attempt erode brand loyalty from another firm, or to increase company awareness.
"Why? In the mind of the consumer, there's always another promotion and no real pressure to buy at a particular time. This dynamic, in turn, leads companies to continue price promotions.
"Strategic consumers are those who form expectations about future prices," he explained. In other words, they anticipate that certain products fluctuate in price and react in one of several ways.
Ref: http://news-info.wustl.edu/tips/page/normal/10839.html

“…anticipate that certain products fluctuate in price”
To see Mobile DJing to mature from “just music” and price-point shopping does not entail destroying your own market. By participating in the downward spirals of helping reaffirm poor business practice is counter-productive for everyone around you. It drives the quality of product down. It drives the quality of consumer down. It drives the quality of your own establishment down.

Regular discounting DESTROYS image.

One should refrain from utilizing discounting to close or assist in closing a sale. Regular discounting is a lazy way of presentation of your services because regular discounting as a mobile DJ illustrates little advance knowledge of the consumer.



Consumer Decision Process (CDP)

A firm can employ discounts when the consumer decision process is short. The CDP for hiring a DJ is, and should be, moderately complex.

I have studied at least 3 hours on every block in that complex diagram, took informations presented and looked at the business of mobile DJing with eyes of repair, not despair.

IF you are still absolutely compelled to discount, try this:
Most people will expect you to keep all the conditions “as is” but they will want the lower price. By demonstrating how much the concession is worth you can reduce the effectiveness of their request.
Finally, another strategy is to always ask for something in return for making a concession even if you don’t need it. I have been surprised how many times I have gotten something extra simply by asking. Plus, it often prevents the other person from asking for an additional concession because they know you will ask for something in return.
Remember, your ultimate goal is to give away as little as possible in order to close the sale. Every time you discount your product or service you discount yourself and eat away your profits.
Ref: http://www.icbs.com/KB/marketing/kb_marketing-focus-on-a-trade.htm
 

FlyingDJDan

Don't Care About Titles
Goodknightdj said:
FlyingDJDan said:
Why do sports figures make so much money??? Hell they are just playing a game! They should be doing it for free!!!

BULL!

They recognize all the hard work they did to get where they are. They recognize the entertainment value they give. They respect (overall) what they are and the talents they were blessed with.
And when it is time, they negotiate a new contract.
True,

But they start with a price that is worthy of talents brought to the table in the first place.

I am not against negotiations.

But, why, for the dj, is it usually an already cut rate, then, cutting again???

Desperation perhaps? Anything to get a job as opposed to the right job???

As stated on another board, one thing I have noticed when "associating" with dj's that charge more and are more confident in their own talents and uniqueness...

They share more. and that includes leads for jobs they are not the "right match" for.

Thus, we get the clients we want, and match with, and refer those that don't to others that match better.

That just doesn't happen much in the lower end of the scale. Some, yes. Not nearly as much.


^^^^^^^^^^
Ken, I smell brain cells frying! :wink:
 

bb

Well-Known Member
Ken very good but you better pad your rear with some books Tom may spank you for that statement made above about his flaw. I assume!

Value: Paying a little extra for peace of mind is better then trying to save a few dollars and stressing out wondering if the outcome will be successful.
 

Goodknightdj

Word of Web (WOW) DJ
FlyingDJDan said:
But, why, for the dj, is it usually an already cut rate, then, cutting again???
I'm now on the same page with you Dan.

I agree, starting with an amount that puts you in debt and then negotiating to an amount that makes you homeless is stupid. As a matter of fact, if DJing was causing me to be homeless I'd find a new line of work.

That's why I used the argument of expenses + profit margin + fluff. I will never negotiate below my expense + profit margin rate.

Ken, maybe I should use one of your lectures to kill brain cells rather than the Vodka.
 

FlyingDJDan

Don't Care About Titles
Goodknightdj said:
Ken Petersen said:
Regular discounting DESTROYS image.
Man...

Now Wal-Mart's image is just totally destroyed in my mind.
Good example!!!

Walmart has done this.

The value, price, and quality of the businesses and products inside the store's "cheap" reputation have taken a big hit in image.

I respect those that have not succumbed to their forceful tactics. Those that haven't gone cheap, have actually increased quality and value in many cases.

There can only be 1 "lowest price".

If one is honest, and does true research. The "low price leader" slogan is no longer. But people keep thinking that.

In many cases, I have found much "cheaper" pricing for the same product elsewhere. Not "on sale" either.
 

DJ Dr. Drax

Active Member
GoodknightDJ said:
I have always had a business plan. It includes discounts. I call it negotiation. You see, I'd rather have an event than an open date. I know my bottom line and how much I want to make and everything above that is fluff that I can cut.

I don't tell my prospective clients that they can cut certain things out of their event to afford me. If it doesn't violate my cost of production, which includes a fair profit margin, I negotiate a price with them.
So in other words those that don't negotiate with you get hosed paying more than they should. Why not just offer your services at a fair market price & stick to it? Last I looked we weren't flea market commodity retailers... We weren't hawking wares in some Bazaar. I will suggest options to clients on how they can afford me. It simply comes down to helping them to align their dollars with the items that they feel are most important to their events success from their perspective. If entertainment is important, then they will spend accordingly, if ice molds, printed chocolates or chair linens are more important, then that is where they will place their money. They may not be my client. I am looking for the client that places an appropriate value upon entertainment.

I don't have really any issues with negotiating. However negotiating is a two way street, If I reduce price, they give up something for it or offer something else in exchange. I negotiated on doing a bridal show. We both got what we wanted. I still got my full value from them. I negotiate every day Tom. But I don't discount wholesale, nor do I expect others to.

Rather I take issue with wholesale discounting because it seems you believe it to be the only way to survive a recession. It isn't. There are many better ways to ride it out than to cut your rates. Ya got to have a plan.....

GoodknightDJ said:
Right, stand your ground and work less, or even not at all.
Please provide your empirical evidence that this is even close to factual. You can't, but why should that get in the way? I look forward to seeing your proof. You are always playing this card, yet you say you have no fear, no panic, but your statement says otherwise. ;)

Mark Beecher said:
I will discount and I don't advertise. I guess I'm a loser.
Occasional discounting doesn't make one a loser, discounting as your only answer to recessionary pressures is simply not the best option for survival. The recovery from deep discounting afterwards can be longer than the recession lasted. So your losses from discounting often exceed what you might have lost holding your ground or finding other things that can be offered that reduce loss by rate reduction. Value is the key, raising perceived value is an important tenet, one that I think you understand.

Advertising, I do think that you do advertise, do you never talk to people telling them your a mobile DJ? Do you never visit facilities when they change owners or managers to introduce yourself? Do you not have a website? We all advertise, it's just a matter of semantics on how, how much & how often.

DJ J Mac said:
Drax, I understand that you are quite knowledgeable, but what exactly qualifies you to be an economic guru that knows all about every single market in the country?
Fair question. First, I never claimed to be an "economic guru". I Was only sharing what has worked for me & what I have learned from others. However, perhaps it's that at my age I have lived thru 6 recessions. How about you? Perhaps it's because I have done some research in most of the major markets in the US on weddings to develop a trending to see where & how much people are spending on weddings. It's pretty consistent in every market over 50K people that I have looked into. Wages for many typical jobs are consistent in many markets. Perhaps because history teaches us that recessions are cyclical & that surviving them doesn't require wholesale discounting to survive. Perhaps it is that I look to the successful major businesses & see what their model is. How do they plan for recessionary periods. I watch, I listen & I learn.

Perhaps it's that I have spent significant time in business to observe trending all across the country in a number of business sectors. Perhaps its that in my career have worked with & for some of the sharpest business minds in American business, yet they are not household names, but have prospered beyond measure. Rather than argue with them about economic philosophies & varities of idealogue notions, I listened, I learned & I followed what I saw them do to be successful & to survive recessions without price cuts or massive losses. It has worked for me in every business I have owned.

DJ J Mac said:
Even with a discounted gig, if you're making a profit, then that's money in the bank. You also never know what may come out of a gig, a steady gig, several good leads. Sometimes it pays to do a discounted gig, even if its only some extra cash in the bank.
The above statement about profit presupposes that they have an actual written business plan with costs, sales projections, & profit margin. How many here on this forum do you think really have one? From listening to what people say & write, I suspect very, very few. Without such a guiding document, they are really guessing on where their business is, or where it's going. A business plan is the single most important recession proofing tool you can have.

If you don't know what will come out of a gig, then discounting in the hopes of that then your just GUESSING something will. I try not to guess. Again, the goal isn't cash in the bank, unless it STAYS there. As I stated too many think they do well because they manage a large cash flow, & have money in their account, they get paid & run large amounts of cash thru their business, but their wealth doesn't increase. Why? They simply survive & get by. They are not prospering, They are not recession proof.

Being recession proof takes more than a knee jerk reaction to the "perceived" market changes. It takes a plan. If you got one, a good one, well modeled & considered your going to be ok. If you don't, you will suffer. You will panic & take the shortest road to nowhere, just to be somewhere on Saturday night.

There is a better way, "A More Excellent Way", it begins with a plan..........
 

Ken Petersen

Account Closed
Goodknightdj said:
Ken, maybe I should use one of your lectures to kill brain cells rather than the Vodka.
Within the confines of a “Post Reply” box, I needed to start outlining just how big of an iceberg you erroneously bumped into.

You should realize that one post isn’t going to fix the damaging comment that I’d refer to discounting as a strategic plan for a period of economic downturn. Instead of dismissing the content provided with a quip; spend an hour researching on your own each of the three segments of my post.

  • Differences between marketing and sales.
    Promotional strategies.
    Consumer Decision Processes.

When you come to an understanding of all three, then try apply discount strategies to a specialized and limited production-run business. You will begin to see that regular discounts in this line of work are self-destructive to yourself and those around you.

By continuously misunderstanding basic tools of promotional discounts, you’ve found yourself doing this:

Goodknightdj said:
Ken Petersen said:
Regular discounting DESTROYS image.
Man...

Now Wal-Mart's image is just totally destroyed in my mind.
Tom, there are great pieces of the Wal-Mart model to study. However, equating strategies employed by a market share model to a single-op mobile DJ company are ingredients in a recipe for disaster. You are not a market share model, nor are a majority of the viewers on this board. I would not mislead, nor will I allow you to take my words and use them in effort to mis-guide.
 

Goodknightdj

Word of Web (WOW) DJ
Dagnab it Dan!

I used Wal-Mart because it was probably the most familiar name.

Geeze, I agree with you and you do this to me. :lol:

Dan also said:

As stated on another board, one thing I have noticed when "associating" with dj's that charge more and are more confident in their own talents and uniqueness...

They share more. and that includes leads for jobs they are not the "right match" for.

Thus, we get the clients we want, and match with, and refer those that don't to others that match better.

That just doesn't happen much in the lower end of the scale. Some, yes. Not nearly as much.
Well, at the beginning of the year I did raise my rates and I changed my presentation. In the thread http://start.prodj.com/viewtopic.php?p=439888#439888 there's a discussion about a timeline to be presented to prospective clients. Giving credit where it is due, the one referenced was originally developed by Peter Merry and refined by Hampton Thomas. I have been using something similar but it was developed over several years of time and motion analysis.

Putting something like that in front of prospective clients does cut down on the negotiation as they see value. But, I still get some that just can't afford my quote. If we can meet somewhere above my cost of production (expenses + profit margin) then all is still good. Bellow cost of production = sorry, I can't help you.
 

DJ Dr. Drax

Active Member
Sorry Tom,

I know your not really interested, your comment I quoted above & now below confirms it.

GoodknightDJ wrote:

Right, stand your ground and work less, or even not at all.
Since in your mind I don't know anything compared to you, why waste my time? Maybe post your facts to support the above statement & then maybe we can "negotiate" on it. ;) LOL
 
M

Mark Beecher

Guest
Don't discount more than you can afford to lose. Pretty simple.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top