MP3 CD Filename Formats for Denon DN-D4500 MP3 Searching

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larry62

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Hi.

Been reading this forum for a while, and I've learned a lot. This is my first post (so it will be extra-long to make up for lost time, as I'm part of the redundant department of redundant team :p).

Not sure if this is the right place to post it, as it's sort of an old-school question. Feel free to move it if needed. (It takes me a while to work through upgrades, and I've been mostly CD since they came out, not sure how so much time has passed so quickly. I like vinyl, even have stuff on 45s, but after 8-track 'ka-chunks' and open-reel splicing, and then 'Kaa-ssette' pinky and pencil cue-ing, I've stuck with CDs. At least I skipped mini-discs, too. ...But, I'm slowing moving forward!!! :p.)

For background, I've been working on ripping and organizing my CD collection to MP3 for migration to a computer-based setup. While doing that, I realized that an interim step would be to burn and use decade-based discs with MP3 files for events (duh.) This would give me more songs per disc, and I could have a set of a few select CDs with the most-requested songs organized by decade or genre. I'd make a pair of each mp3 disc, so I could stay within a specific genre.

Getting to the issue, I was considering taking advantage of the MP3 search function on my Denon DN-D4500 CD players as the MP3-based CDs will have more songs on them, and clean labeling will be difficult. However I have not been successful in getting the MP3 search mode functions to work as I think the manual describe them.

Unfortunately Denon phone and email support was not much help, which was curious, given that their manuals are at best 'very brief' and I had done a fair amount of homework, but enough on that. I also couldn't find any useful info using internet searches, likely because this is a pretty 'vintage' question.

Since I may need to live with any formatting choices I pick for quite some time, (especially if these become backup discs to a computer based system,) I want to make sure I've explored all the options and make the best formatting choice up front.

It may be that I'm not burning the discs correctly, or maybe what I'm seeing is just normal operation, or possibly something else is going on. I'll describe what I did, and what I see, and hopefully I'll get some feedback about what's going on. I'll list some specific questions at the end.

Note that the CDs play back fine, and the MP3 tags are OK, so when I cycle through a track's info using the 'title' button, I see the MP3 tag info for each song. (The MP3 tags are different from the artist - title info in the filename.) Likewise, I can scroll through the songs fine using the track select knob, and I see the file names show up as expected. I've used both Nero and Media Monkey to burn discs, and I've tried a few variations there, so I don't think it's a disc burning issue.

When I push and turn the track select knob, it jumps by 10 tracks as expected. When I push and hold the track selection knob on my test disc, I can choose and select the 'FileSearch', 'Title Name', and 'ArtistName' modes as described in the manual. I take this to mean that the player identifies my test disc as has having been burned in basically an acceptable format.

(I did have problems getting the discs to allow the 'Title Name' and 'ArtistName' modes to show up even when I burned them with a dash between Artist and Title and left other punctuation in place, so I finally removed all punctuation except the dash, and I shortened the file names.

I'd like to know what aspects of the filenames make the Denon unhappy, as I'd rather not have to manually edit all the filenames just to burn the disks. There were parenthesis and brackets which can also be used as the artist/title delimiter, but those were all after the dash in each filename. Likewise, a B-52's song had two dashes, but I would have just expected that to make the Denon think the 52's was part of the title, not the artist.)

Anyway, I made the simplified test disc to make sure it wasn't a punctuation or filename character length issue. My simplified test disk has these filenames for the tracks:

B52s - Love Shack.mp3
Black Eyed Peas - Boom Boom Pow.mp3
Black Eyed Peas - Lets Get It Started.mp3
Bob Seger - Old Time Rock and Roll.mp3
Brooks and Dunn - Neon Moon.mp3
Deana Carter - Strawberry Wine.mp3
Dexys Midnight Runners - Come on Eileen.mp3
Donna Summer - Last Dance.mp3
LMFAO - Party Rock Anthem.mp3
LTD - Back in Love Again.mp3
Labelle - Lady Marmalade.mp3
Lady Gaga - Born This Way Bimbo Jones.mp3
Lady Gaga - Born This Way Zedd.mp3
Lady Gaga - Poker Face.mp3
Sam Cooke - Twistin the Night Away.mp3
Shania Twain - Man I Feel Like a Woman.mp3
Sister Sledge - We Are Family.mp3
Spinners - Could It Be Im Falling in Love.mp3
Stevie Wonder - Signed Sealed Delivered.mp3
Sugarland - Stuck Like Glue.mp3

So, when I push and hold the 'track select' knob, then select 'Title Name' mode, here's what happens:

When I turn the 'track select' knob, it scrolls through the tracks in track order, and only shows the title portion of the filename. So far, so good. But, when I hold and turn the 'track select' knob, the display just stays on the first track, showing '01 Love Shack'.

I was expecting it to scroll through the tracks in alphabetical order by title, or at least scroll through the first title for each letter in alphabetical order, based on my reading of the manual:

Per Page 13, Table Section 4 of the Manual, it says "When the artist name search or title name search mode is selected and the TRACK SELECT/MP3 SEARCH MODE KNOB (9) is pressed in while turned, name search is performed in the alphabetical order of the names."

So, in 'Title Name' mode, it looks like I can scroll through the tracks in the artist order, and only see the title, but not actually search the titles in alphabetical order of title.

Moving on to 'ArtistName' mode:

Once I select 'ArtistName' mode, when I turn the 'track select' knob, the unit scrolls through just those tracks (in track order) that have an artist name starting with a given letter, and it displays the titles of those songs. If I hold down and turn the track select knob, it scrolls through the artists in track order, showing only the first artist of a given first letter.

So, if I hold and turn the 'track select' knob with my sample disc, I see

B52s
Deana Carter
LMFAO
Sam Cooke

If I release the 'select track' knob at B52s and the turn it without pushing down, I see:

Love Shack
Boom Boom Pow
Lets Get It Started
Old Time Rock and Roll
Neon Moon

So, the 'ArtistName' mode seems to work, even if it is a bit different than expected.

So, here is a little more useless detail:

I use Vista SP2, rip commercial CDs to mp3 @ 320kbps with WMP 11.0, rip PrimeCuts CDs to mp3 @ 320kbps with CDex 1.70 beta 4. I organize with a full version of MediaMonkey 3.2.5.1305, and I use MixMeister BPM analyzer to determine BPMs if missing. I've burned with both Nero and Media Monkey, and make sure to burn 'disc at once'. Both of my DN-D4500s are at version Sys 0042.


So, after all of that, here are my questions (if anyone is still reading....):

1) Am I seeing normal, expected performance for the MP3 search modes in the Denon DN-D4500?

2) If I'm not seeing expected performance, any idea what I'm doing wrong? Discs burned wrong? PEBKAC? (Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair?)

3) Do any of you who use MP3 discs with Denon players use these modes? Do you switch modes on the fly?

4) Any suggestions as to what I need to clean up prior to burning the discs so the discs are compatible with the MP3 search mode? Filename length? Special characters? (I can do some more experiments if needed, but I'm hoping someone knows or has it written down somewhere.)

5) What general suggestions do users of MP3 discs have for formatting for 'future proofing'? Do you use folders? Do you use the dashes, or brackets, or ??? Any suggestions as to how to do the formatting without needing duplicate copies on the computer or permanently messing up the original filenames?


I've learned a lot on this forum. I hope this was at least an interesting read. Thanks in advance for any answers or wisdom.

-larry-
 

larry62

New Member
Found the issue - white space

So, I figured out what I was doing wrong in burning MP3 CDs for my Denon DN-D4500s that was preventing the artist and title searches from working properly. So, I thought I'd update the thread with what I've learned as my second post to the forum.

I had placed a space between the dash separating the artist and title:

Bad:
Artist - Title

OK:
Artist -Title

So, the unit was treating the space after the dash as the first letter in the Title.

Once I corrected that, the Artist and Title searches worked as expected. Push and Turn the 'Track Select' in Title mode, and you scroll through the titles, one title for each letter in alphabetical order. Once you get to the letter you like, release and turn, and you scroll through the titles of that one starting letter, but in track order on the CD. In Artist mode, when you push and turn, it scrolls through artists, one artist for a given letter, then when you release, scrolls through the titles with artists starting with that given letter.

I also found that even though the MP3 CDs will play with longer file names, there is a limit to the number of characters allowed in the file name for the search to work. I found that 66 character file names were OK, but 67 were not. If you subtract the '.mp3' and the space and dash between Artist and Title, that gives you 60 characters to play with, and I found that it would work all the way to 59 characters for Title, and one for Artist, and vise-versa.

Thanks,

-larry-
 

Scottie B

Member
I realize that larry here posted this a few weeks ago with no responses. I missed it somehow or I may have been able to help. Makes me wonder though.... was his post to long and detailed so we found it less difficult to just move on and pick on Byron and Arnoldo instead??
 
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