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Changing the industry.....

Discussion in 'General Conversation' started by jsabolent, Apr 13, 2012.

  1. jsabolent

    jsabolent New Member

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    So... I always hear all this talk about how the industry is tanking or degraded because of the illegal and undercutting DJs ( i call them DJ in a Box). I want to pose a question on what can we do to change it?

    Let me start with what I don't want to hear.
    #1 All the "raising the bar" Nonsense. I understand the concept. BUT... a cheap price tag , and a fast talker seems to go a lot further than explaining to your potential clients. As well, I hear continuous stories about how brides and venues are still going with "the other guy",
    #2 Charge more, and charge what your worth. All things aside, I go back to what depending on your market, reputation, and clientele, nothing else can dictate what you charge. For example $2K wedding in California is the same as a $1k wedding in Cleveland, Ohio. Because a Studio apartment in LA is $1k and a studio out here is $600. Not to mention, if you get in with the right clientele, in your market, then it makes sense to charge that. (That’s not completely accurate; I am just making the point of different cost of living in different markets)
    #3 Becoming a Member, or affiliation with some “accredited" organization. Because, honestly, in the big picture. The average bride and/or venue have no clue who the ADJA or WED guild is. Just sayin. No offense to either of those organizations, but your targeting DJs, DJs are targeting the clients. I support the concept! I am looking for a different spin.
    #4 Any Personal references towards other DJs. Companies, or organizations that is derogatory. This thread is for the grown-ups and professionals. (I half expect this thread to eventually get moved to the toilet bowl section....)


    I am curious to see if we can come up with something new, something that will help the industry out, not just any single group or type of DJ. Without falling back on the above mentioned things. Time to think outside the box…. (The other half of me expects this thread to come up with nothing)
  2. Cap

    Cap Always At Your Service

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    J Sabol: The problem rests with the "we" portion in the second line of your post.

    How does Macys stay afloat in a sea of marts and job lots? Surely Macy's didn't form a consortium with Bloomingdale's, Penny's, and Kohl's on how to overcome Wally World, Big Lots, and Ocean State.

    How does Mercedes remain vibrant among Hyundai? Doubtful that company consulted in tandem with Ford, GM, Toyota, or Nissan to see how they can overcome the Fiats and Yugos, but probably did pay attention to Maserati and Ferrari strategies.

    The answer to your question lies with personal research and adjustments using the the word "I", not "we", tailoring and targeting your unique specific product to your unique targeted consumers.

    "We" has never worked, will never work, and is the industry's diving board into the massive pool of poor me excuses and underachievers.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  3. Kacimlangford

    Kacimlangford Bose L1 Double B1 DJ

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    I live by one simple rule for my DJ business. Don't worry about what the other guy does. This pertains to price, upsells, gear, advertising etc.

    Higher priced DJs spend so much time complaining about the "Bottom feeders", lowballers, Craigslist djs, DJs in a box etc, that they don't concentrate on themselves enough.

    If you are booking events at the price you are asking, then don't worry about the lower priced guy. If you are not booking shows at the price you are asking, you must need to do something different. Lower your price or change your technique on selling.

    Again, worry about yourself and stop worrying or blaming the guy priced lower than you.
  4. djstevieray

    djstevieray Somewhere On Hoth

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    Karl,
    I think the OP was looking at this with pricing off the table.

    What I would love to see is some sort of standardized accreditation or certification. I mean you can call yourself a lawyer, doctor, accountant etc, but no one will hire you without that piece of paper on your wall that says you have you doctorate, or passed the bar etc. But with DJ's anyone can call themselves a DJ and get hired without ever even have attended an event. To be taken seriously we would need a publicly accepted certification. The biggest part of that line is publicly accepted. I believe the ADJA does have something, but it needs to be known by the masses, and accepted as validation.

    The requirements can be simple....
    1) Proof of a legitimate music catalog
    2) Proof of Liability insurance
    3) 3 Professional references from other Wedding Vendors (ie Reception halls, photographers)

    So you cannot get certified without these items. So how would someone starting a new DJ business get certified. Well the first 2 are easy, the references would be more difficult, so this could be solved by requiring a shadow program with a certified DJ. You attend 12 shows with a company that is certified, and that company can then give you a reference.
  5. majorsoundsmusic

    majorsoundsmusic New Member

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    I don't pay attention to pricing, other then to make sure I'm not the bottom feeder. :p

    I spend my time building the bigger better "box" by making sure things look good, sound good, and are executed as flawlessly as possible.
  6. Kacimlangford

    Kacimlangford Bose L1 Double B1 DJ

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    I did kind of mis read that. But my point still fits. Worry about yourself and not the other guys.

    Just like the things you (Stevie Ray) listed, if you are doing these, why do you care that others don't? Worry about you and if things are not working, change how you do things.

    It all comes down to blaming someone else if something isn't right. If I am not filling dates, I change what I am doing, not complain that this guy is doing it the wrong way and keeping me from filling dates.
  7. djstevieray

    djstevieray Somewhere On Hoth

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    I didn't say I was worried, I just stated I would love to see something that brings a little bit of legitamacy (sp) to our industry. Brides think that there is no difference between Uncle Mike with Winamp and a home stereo and a professional UNTIL they get to meet or see a DJ of higher quality. Often times sadly it is too late (they hire Uncle Mike before ever meeting a professional DJ). If there was a publicly recognized certification, I believe clients would look for it.
  8. Old_Goat

    Old_Goat Senior LDJC Member

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    I think Cap AND Karl hit the same nail on the same head.

    I don't think this industry is "tanking". If I did, I wouldn't be getting back IN to it.

    There are some good, solid reasons for the ***ociations, just as there are good, solid reasons for the magazines, ( and, of course, PRO DJ! ).

    Since 1995 this thread has been started, answered, flamed, quenched, locked and drifted to the bottom of the heap a TERRABYTE worth of times. What has changed?

    We have guys out there that were worth thousands of dollars then. They're worth MILLIONS now. Singles, multis, part-time, full time...discussing effective brochure design! Some of us were guys hoping for a $500 wedding, bemoaning the brides calling and wanting a DJ for $150. Working a bar for $35! Yes, inflation HAS had more than a touch to do with it...but it's not the ONLY factor! Some of us were phenomenal spinners. Some of us were talented emcees. Still others here were masterminds of marketing. Understanding as well as knowing but NOT "worrying" about EITHER your competition or the MARKET in another town / state is the key. For while there are certain principles that are "common" to all, there are NONE "universal". (If they were, there wouldn't BE any competition or, for that matter, more than two or three companies nationally).

    I can STILL smell the fires. But "stuff" did get accomplished. The public DID get a little smarter. The bar DID get raised.

    Anyone for a pool on when this thread gets started again?
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  9. Old_Goat

    Old_Goat Senior LDJC Member

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    Two sig lines come right to mind:

    "The only thing that beats a failure is a try"

    AND

    "If you think you can or you think you can't...you're right".

    It's almost as if you WHOLLY, (two halves, after all...), expected your post to be doomed out of the gate.
  10. robertbenda

    robertbenda Active Member

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    Not to get too far off his question, Cap, but 'We' has worked. When Toyota wanted to start selling cars in the U.S., they went to GM and they ran a factory together. GM's benefit was learning to not build cruddy cars (though it was about Toyota making compact cars for them). They both learned and benefited.

    For Mr. Sabol, I'm not even sure what your question is: how do we do something about these 'DJ's in a box?' Or just how we redefine ourselves as (wedding) DJs in general? Some new game, approach, or something? What are you hoping to learn? It's rare for something to come along that changes an industry since, like any broadly inclusive group, DJ covers a lot of types and styles: club, radio, wedding, school, karaoke, and on, and on. It's hard enough to come up with changes for just my wedding sector, let alone something that would redefine the entire industry of people who play music for others' entertainment.
  11. jsabolent

    jsabolent New Member

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    I am very much liking the responses! Keep em coming.

    Although I have liked everyone responses, i feel like Stevie Ray saw where I was going with this and virtually nailed it on the head.

    CAP and Karl , i completely understand, honestly... in my market there is only 3 companies i care about. Mine, my friends/colleagues, and... the one a**hole who keeps undercutting everyone else's shows. I am secure in my venues, as they have tried to undercut two of five that were mine... still want to get em one day. In the mean time, I am focusing on many other things and they are not a priority. HOW EVER.. in the past 8 months, since i made the decision to go off and start my own company, i have began networking with many other companies. The beautiful things about "Egos" is it makes people want to show off and talk. I have actually learned from some of the networking.

    Old Goat - I don't disagree with you at all. The organizations can have a huge effect. I will eventually even get my ADJA Membership, once i am ready. I just wanted it to not be considered in the answered. Price points, and ***ociations seem to have become a crutch in almost every conflict i have seen on this board. The difference between my post, and others in the past, is i am actually building some concepts and ideas, to make something happen. Outside of my own little world. Just gonna take me some time to get there. Need to have my stuff straight before i can do/build anything.
  12. jsabolent

    jsabolent New Member

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    Your right, I base that off what I have seen in previous threads. And although now i am forced to give away my secret ( seems a lot of people just like to proves others wrong on here) so reverse psychology was kinda the point lol. I know there are some really good minds on these forums. I know that things can be figured out, if the right minds got in one place. Its the ones with the narrow mindset that will eventually ruin the initial point of this thread. I am just curious to see who is truly on board to make things right, get us out of the grey area, for future reference.
  13. jsabolent

    jsabolent New Member

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    In the end, we are all start with the same tools. It is only us as individuals that make the difference. I said this in a recent discussion with a friend of mine. We have lost touch with what DJs truly are, because of all the different labels and titles. Any way you look at it.. we are all DJs.. club dj, radio dj, wedding dj, school dj. KJ is a bit different. I am talking more about the BASE of everything. How do we make it so that it takes a little more than just a large library and a microphone and some speakers to be a DJ. I am not looking for anything specific. Trying to pick some of the brains on here!
  14. Maverick

    Maverick Pumping It Up

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    PS: Its like this in every industry(keep that in mind) Plumbers, WoodChippers, Photographers, Painters....its not unique but everyone gets a piece of the pie...set yourself apart, stand on your reputation and you will not need to worry about the industry..its not going downhill from my point of view....
  15. DJSTEVEZ

    DJSTEVEZ DJ Emeritus

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    EXACTLY! Bullseye! -Z-
  16. jsabolent

    jsabolent New Member

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    Let me put a different angel on this. Lets talk about the consumer. How do we protect the consumer?
  17. djsarge

    djsarge Active Member

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    Even tree climbers have to be licensed.
  18. Big E

    Big E New Member

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    *yawn*...*yawn*...(it never ends!)
  19. hippydog

    hippydog wuz here when it was Red.

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    Who exactly is saying the industry is 'degraded' because of the illegal or undercutting DJ's? And who says they are right?
    1.) the only thing that can be possiblly illegal for a DJ to do is to not pay taxes on his income.
    2.) The other thing is the use of stolen music and breaking the copywrite law.. which is laughable in the USA as their is very little in place to allow DJ's to be 100% legal (as per the current copywrite law). So it s hard to condemn the copywrite breakers when a.) most DJ's are breaking the copywrite law even if they dont want to b.) the music industry doesnt seem too concerned about stopping it (nor creating a fairer competition OR making things possible for DJs TO BE 100% legal without having to sell their house)
    (and thats a whole nother thread)


    As to the undercutting.
    how does charging a lower price then the guy next to you "degrade" the industry?
    Is it the actual problem? or is it a symptom of the problem? Can ANYTHING be done about it?..
    Simple answer on that one.. Thats a bigger problem then You are I can deal with.. Its the Walmart mentality of the 21 century. The race to be the cheapest.. the ONLY way to fight it is to get OUT of the race.. (and thats a whole nother thread)
  20. hippydog

    hippydog wuz here when it was Red.

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    Why? Why dont you wanna hear it? Because it doesnt make sense to you? or its too much work? or some third reason?

    The things you "dont want to hear" are brought up endless times for a reason, because they are the ONLY answers that have worked.
    Saying 'i dont want to hear it', is like having your doctor say you need to lose weight, and your answer is 'no.. I dont want to excercise, give me a pill instead'

    for example.
    1.) raising the bar is not nonsense.. just because you dont want to, doesnt make it a valid solution..
    as per my last post.. If you were selling groceries and cheap household products, then Walmart moves in.. you have two simple choices. Try and compete with them, or change your type of business (IE: sell high end household products, and specialty imported groceries or specialty organic groceries, etc etc)..
    either way, RAISING THE BAR means taking your business to ANOTHER LEVEL.


    as to the rest.. "charging more", & "become a member of an ***ociation", they are also mentioned for a reason..
    I would explain it.. but you dont want to hear it ;-)

    We dont need to come up with something new.. most DJ's are not even using (or have barely tried) the existing solutions..

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