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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Ottawa Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,408
    Quote Originally Posted by digitalphantoms View Post
    did the drum kit go through the mains as well? did you have subs? Glad everything worked out well. thanks for the report and the picture.
    Yes drums were mic'd.. kick, snare and tom and I had overheads but they weren't really necessary, bass was DI, lead guitar mic'd, and a couple keyboards direct in, and yes there was an SRM1801 under each ZLX.
    Paul O
    Old tech guy and know-it-all
    AudioRent
    www.techott.com

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Buchanan, MI United States
    Posts
    773
    Update on the the weekends events with the ZLX. I am still trying to figure out how the ZLX are throwing so well. Friday-Saturday we did a 24 hour relay for life with only 4 of the ZLX on a full size football stadium. Setup right outside the press box up on the concrete pad. I ran them at a comfortable level right under any clipping for 24 hours straight. Didn't seem to matter if they were in the sun or not, held about the same temp and never had any issues. It was 85 degrees with 90% humidity. HOT. This particular stadium has a housing development on the other side of both schools (middle school and high school were in between). Complaints were called in from the housing district the other side of both schools. They have a strict sound ordinance after 9pm. I turned it way down after 9pm and still have the police at the stadium by 9:30. No joke I ran all 4 of them at 1/4 volume and you could still easily hear all music and announcements on the other side of the stadium. Again, I am left scratching my head at their throw abilities. They are not a cabinet designed for this type of use.

    So for Saturday night we had a concert outdoors for about 1000 people. Front of house was 8 of the ZLX-12p's and 8 SBA760's. there were also 6 12p's handling the monitor wedge work. Console was a presonus 24.2 Overall sound was great again. Nice even wide coverage. Plenty loud. Very clear. Could not get the 8 FOH cabs up high enough to get a decent chance at throw, but they still did well. Overall this cabinet does a great job at covering a multitude of events. Especially for the price.
    Randy Hendrixson
    DPM Events
    http://dpmevents.com

  3. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to digitalphantoms For This Useful Post:

    Billabong (07-29-2013), BillESC (08-01-2013), jcarey (07-29-2013), TMSOriginal (01-29-2014)

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    631
    Thank you Randy for your continued coverage of the ZLX! It's good to hear how they perform in the real world. I am seriously looking at these (12p's) as my next set of speakers.

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    5,606
    Quote Originally Posted by digitalphantoms View Post
    Update on the the weekends events with the ZLX. I am still trying to figure out how the ZLX are throwing so well. Friday-Saturday we did a 24 hour relay for life with only 4 of the ZLX on a full size football stadium. Setup right outside the press box up on the concrete pad. I ran them at a comfortable level right under any clipping for 24 hours straight. Didn't seem to matter if they were in the sun or not, held about the same temp and never had any issues. It was 85 degrees with 90% humidity. HOT. This particular stadium has a housing development on the other side of both schools (middle school and high school were in between). Complaints were called in from the housing district the other side of both schools. They have a strict sound ordinance after 9pm. I turned it way down after 9pm and still have the police at the stadium by 9:30. No joke I ran all 4 of them at 1/4 volume and you could still easily hear all music and announcements on the other side of the stadium. Again, I am left scratching my head at their throw abilities. They are not a cabinet designed for this type of use.

    So for Saturday night we had a concert outdoors for about 1000 people. Front of house was 8 of the ZLX-12p's and 8 SBA760's. there were also 6 12p's handling the monitor wedge work. Console was a presonus 24.2 Overall sound was great again. Nice even wide coverage. Plenty loud. Very clear. Could not get the 8 FOH cabs up high enough to get a decent chance at throw, but they still did well. Overall this cabinet does a great job at covering a multitude of events. Especially for the price.
    The perceived throw and SPL at distance isn't surprising really. Ambient noise levels are significantly reduced in most areas after 6pm to 8pm and drop even further after 9pm...so much so a decent boombox will provide enough sound to easily cover a wide open area such as that. It doesn't appear it's so much a matter of throw, but rather a matter of the ambient noise floor being reduced significantly and the perception of a greater throw. At that hour a couple of EAW 750's would be offering incredible output powered by an IPhone!
    Copyright 1995 - 2013 Bob Dietrich AD&L
    ***************************
    This post, opinion & viewpoint is copyrighted information.
    It is the sole Property of Bob Dietrich AD&L.
    Do not copy or otherwise use this information or exchange it with
    others without the express written consent of the author.
    ************************************************

    Bob Dietrich
    Acoustic Dreams & Lightbeams
    Peoria's Finest Disc Jockey Entertainment

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Bob Dietrich For This Useful Post:

    djtunes (08-07-2013)

  7. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 1998
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Posts
    10,495
    Randy, I have question about feedback. One of the coolest things I love about my mackies is the comnpression limiter that is present. unless you stick the mic i nthe horn, I never get a feedback.

    Do the EV ZLX's have a similar compressor limiter feature that squelchs the amount of feedback? nto that it's a big deal for me, because I know how to avoid it, but it is nice to have a tool that takes care of it mostly.
    Bill

    Begin with the end in sight

    According to Einstein, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    http://www.northcarolinadj.com

  8. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Buchanan, MI United States
    Posts
    773
    Bob, Good point. However I am just comparing the same setup I have had with different speakers. That is the main reason for the title of this thread, the zlx vs the sxa. The sxa was exceptional at throwing for longer distances compared to the average 12" 2 way cabinet it was matched up against so much mainly because of the 65x65 degree dispersion. Because the zlx is 90x60 i expected the coverage to be better, but not to throw as far at a given input/output level. But I believe the better coverage is actually being perceived by my ears as better then I expected throw. Since the coverage is opened up more especially with additional cabinets you seem to get a more even SPL at further distances and less comb filtering effect which I didn't expect either.

    Bill, that is a good questions. I am not sure if the ZLX possess a built in feedback compressor. I don't believe so. However I always set up my system so that there is not potential for feedback to enter the system if levels are being properly maintained and adjusted. I can do some testing and taking some video's next weekend if you would like? I will set up the system for a better chance of feedback and purposely introduce feedback into the system to see how they handle it if you would like.
    Randy Hendrixson
    DPM Events
    http://dpmevents.com

  9. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Ottawa Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,408
    Bill.. compression actually exasperates feedback problems so if your Mackies appear to be relatively immune to feedback you have to give credit to good speaker positioning and gain staging.
    I got to hear a few good screeches from my ZLXs during that live sound gig when the performer walked in front of the speakers with a live mic, but they had to be directly in front and very close to make it happen, otherwise it didn't seem to be a problem.
    Paul O
    Old tech guy and know-it-all
    AudioRent
    www.techott.com

  10. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 1998
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Posts
    10,495
    Yes Randy that would be great.

    Paul, While I totally understand your point of view, and the technical background you have which I totally am in awe of, the internal compression limiting feature of the Mackies has enabled me to have people standing right under them, and not feed back. They have been amazing cabinets in that regard. I have no doubt that some of my good fortune is speaker placement, and some of the Eqing and sound balancing I do may also possibly be attributable. I do truly believe though, that this compression limiting feature makes the Mackies, still today, an amazing choice for sound reinforcement despite the fact that other speakers put out way more in terms of watts and potential coverage.

    I'm curious to see if the EV's have a semblance of that feature in play. The light weight is appealing to me.

    Of course, every time I got out, I fall in love with those mackie cabinets again though. So replacing them may be a hard thing. I've taken good care of them, and they have taken awesome care of me over the past 13 years.
    Bill

    Begin with the end in sight

    According to Einstein, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    http://www.northcarolinadj.com

  11. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Kilmarnock, VA
    Posts
    10,097
    Not bad speakers considering what you paid for them...
    Thanks,
    Bill Cronheim - ESC, Inc.
    Backstage since 1973

  12. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Ottawa Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,408
    Quote Originally Posted by bill_smith View Post
    Yes Randy that would be great.

    Paul, While I totally understand your point of view, and the technical background you have which I totally am in awe of, the internal compression limiting feature of the Mackies has enabled me to have people standing right under them, and not feed back. They have been amazing cabinets in that regard. I have no doubt that some of my good fortune is speaker placement, and some of the Eqing and sound balancing I do may also possibly be attributable. I do truly believe though, that this compression limiting feature makes the Mackies, still today, an amazing choice for sound reinforcement despite the fact that other speakers put out way more in terms of watts and potential coverage.

    I'm curious to see if the EV's have a semblance of that feature in play.
    The EV's certainly do have limiters and they work very well.. but that's not what is responsible for good feedback rejection it's simply a driver protection feature. There are a lot of factors that contribute to the feedback rejection threshold of any speaker system, the mic type and position relative to the speaker are the biggest, but also factoring in is gain applied to the mic, the SPL the system is operating at, and also the dispersion(coverage angle) of the speaker system. Higher frequencies are more feedback prone(usually) than lower frequencies so the coverage pattern of the horn in a basic 2-way PA cab will have an effect on feedback sensitivity. For example if one box has a 100x60 horn and another has a 60x40 horn then at any given distance and SPL level the sound intensity will be greater in front of the 60x40 speaker so it will be more feedback prone.(This is also why the Bose L1 is relatively immune to feedback, the super wide coverage means the output energy at any given point in space is relatively low so it's hard to set off a mic). But this is also why compression makes feedback more of a problem not less, it increases the intensity of the signal so it's easier to get into a feedback loop. If the speakers are elevated you could also potentially stand directly in front of and under them and not get any feedback because you're outside the direct coverage pattern of the horn, but even if you weren't if your head is between the speaker and the mic you won't get feedback.
    I have to say we had few feedback problems with the ZLXs at that event I did, the mic channels were actually cranked up above unity on the board and there was no issue at all unless the user walked directly in front of the speakers at point blank range with the mic towards the speakers, the singers actually wandered out onto the dance floor with the crowd while singing and with the system playing at full tilt with no feedback. Mics in this case were AT 3000 series and the Z's were elevated overhead.
    Last edited by Conanski; 08-05-2013 at 10:06 AM.
    Paul O
    Old tech guy and know-it-all
    AudioRent
    www.techott.com

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Conanski For This Useful Post:

    bill_smith (08-05-2013)


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